Kurt Gray on How to Bridge Moral Divides and Rebuild Trust

In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Kurt Gray, a leading expert in moral psychology, unpacks the deep-rooted forces that shape our moral judgments and fuel political and social divides. As the author of Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground, Dr. Gray reveals why we often see the world in black and white—and how this rigid thinking erodes trust and fuels conflict.

From moral typecasting to competitive victimhood, he explains the hidden psychological mechanisms behind our outrage and offers actionable insights on how to bridge divides, foster understanding, and reconnect in an increasingly polarized world. Whether you’re struggling with personal disagreements or societal tensions, this conversation will challenge your thinking and equip you with tools to navigate conflict with greater empathy and wisdom.

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How Moral Psychology Can Help Us Overcome Division and Rebuild Trust

In this insightful conversation, Dr. Kurt Gray explores the hidden psychological forces that drive moral disagreements, shape our perceptions of right and wrong, and deepen social and political divides. He explains why we instinctively cast people as heroes, villains, or victims—and how this tendency can trap us in cycles of outrage and misunderstanding. Dr. Gray also breaks down how moral typecasting, competitive victimhood, and entrenched conflicts make it harder to find common ground. Most importantly, he offers science-backed strategies for fostering empathy, improving conversations, and rebuilding trust, whether in personal relationships or society at large.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode With Kurt Gray:

• Understanding Moral Typecasting – How our minds instinctively place people into rigid moral roles that fuel division.
• The Psychology of Outrage – Why moral conflicts escalate and how social media intensifies our sense of injustice.
• Bridging Political and Social Divides – Practical strategies for engaging with people who have different moral perspectives.
• The Power of Intentional Listening – How vulnerability and curiosity can transform difficult conversations.
• Overcoming Competitive Victimhood – Why the battle for moral superiority prevents meaningful progress.
• Applying Moral Psychology to Everyday Life – Actionable ways to navigate conflicts at home, at work, and in society.

WHY IS THIS EPISODE WITH KURT GRAY A MUST-LISTEN?

This episode offers a fresh perspective on the deep-rooted nature of moral conflict and the science behind our divided world. Dr. Kurt Gray provides compelling research and real-world insights to help you break free from cycles of outrage, engage in more productive conversations, and cultivate greater understanding in your personal and professional life. Whether you’re navigating tense political discussions, struggling with workplace disagreements, or simply seeking to improve your relationships, this conversation will equip you with the tools to communicate more effectively and foster genuine human connection.

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Kurt Gray on Understanding Moral Outrage and Bridging Divides

Why do we live in a world that feels increasingly divided, morally inflamed, and ready to erupt at the slightest disagreement? According to Dr. Kurt Gray, professor of psychology and neuroscience at UNC and incoming Chair at Ohio State University, the answer lies deep within our evolutionary wiring and moral psychology.

In a powerful conversation on the Passion Struck podcast, Dr. Gray joined host John R. Miles to explore the roots of moral outrage, why we instinctively divide people into victims and villains, and how we can bridge divides in an age of political and cultural polarization. His new book, Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics—and How to Find Common Ground, is a timely roadmap for making sense of the moral confusion of our times.

Outrage Is Ancient—and Protective

Dr. Gray traces the roots of outrage to a psychological tool evolved to keep us safe. In early human tribes, the biggest threats weren’t wild animals, but each other. We developed a moral sense to detect and punish harm within our groups. This internal compass helped us survive—but it also laid the groundwork for moral emotions like outrage.

Today, we live in far more complex and interconnected societies, but that ancient threat-detection system is still active. When we perceive harm—real or imagined—we react. And with the help of social media, those reactions are amplified at scale.

As Dr. Gray explained, “We’re not only attuned to harm, but also to how others respond to it. Social media is like a Godzilla roar—pairing threats with people screaming—and we respond in kind.”

The Psychology of Victimhood

One of the most fascinating insights from Gray’s research is how people experience moral conflict through the lens of perceived victimhood. “To have pain is to have certainty,” he quotes author Elaine Scarry. We trust our own suffering implicitly—but often question others’ experiences.

This creates a dynamic of “competitive victimhood,” where each side of a conflict positions itself as the true victim, refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the other’s pain. From playground fights to geopolitical wars, the underlying psychology is shockingly similar.

Gray breaks this down further in his “Harm Compass,” a framework that maps how liberals and conservatives prioritize different groups as being vulnerable to harm. Progressives tend to focus on marginalized groups and the environment, while conservatives emphasize the harm done to the powerful and the divine. These competing perceptions drive much of our moral polarization.

Mattering, Moral Humility, and the Path Forward

At the heart of this episode is a deeply human truth: we all want to matter. When people feel unheard, unseen, or dismissed, their outrage grows. As John R. Miles shared in the interview, “When we don’t feel like we matter, we double down on outrage to prove that we do.”

So how do we move forward?

Dr. Gray offers two critical tools: intentional listening and moral humility. Rather than approaching conversations with the goal of “winning,” he urges us to seek understanding. Ask someone why they believe what they do. Listen to the experiences and fears that shape their perspective. Acknowledge their pain without needing to agree. And most importantly, be willing to admit that you don’t have the full picture.

“Moral humility doesn’t mean abandoning your values,” Gray says. “It means recognizing that you might not have all the truth—and that someone else might have a piece of it.”

THANKS, DR. KURT GRAY

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RESOURCES FROM THE SHOW WITH KURT GRAY

Please note that some of the links on this page (books, movies, music, etc.) lead to affiliate programs for which The Passion Struck podcast receives compensation. It’s just one of the ways we keep the lights on around here. Thank you so much for being so supportive!

1. Dr. Kurt Gray’s Website
2. Dr. Kurt Gray’s Instagram
3. Dr. Kurt Gray’s LinkedIn
4. BUY Dr. Kurt Gray’s book Outraged: https://amzn.to/43pn8PV
5. Passion Struck Core Value System: https://passionstruck.com/the-passion-struck-core-belief-system/
6. Listen to Passion Struck’s interviews with New York Times bestselling authors Gretchen Rubin and Seth Godin.
7. Check out Passion Struck’s Episode Starter Packs on Spotify or Passion Struck starter packs to get started with the podcast.

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About Today’s Guest, Kurt Gray

Dr. Kurt Gray is a leading expert in moral psychology and a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab, where he researches how people perceive morality, mind, and meaning in everyday life. His work explores topics such as moral outrage, victimhood, and how we can bridge ideological divides.

Dr. Gray is the author of Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground, which examines the psychology behind moral conflicts and offers solutions for fostering understanding in a divided world. His research has been featured in major media outlets, including The New York Times, The Atlantic, and The Washington Post.

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