Katherine Morgan Schafler on The 5 Types of Perfectionists

In episode 572, John sits down with Katherine Morgan Schafler, psychotherapist, speaker, and author of The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power. Katherine’s groundbreaking approach challenges everything we think we know about perfectionism, showing us that it isn’t something we need to eliminate—but rather, something we can transform into a tool for personal and professional growth.

They explore the five types of perfectionists—Classic, Intense, Parisian, Messy, and Procrastinator—and how understanding your type can unlock self-awareness, resilience, and healthier relationships. Katherine reveals how perfectionism intersects with belonging, self-worth, and the universal need to matter, as well as why it can be both a motivator and a barrier in our pursuit of fulfillment.

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Katherine Morgan Schafler on The Power of Perfectionism

In this episode of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles sits down with renowned psychotherapist, speaker, and bestselling author Katherine Morgan Schafler to explore a transformative approach to perfectionism.

The conversation also explores the deeper psychological aspects of perfectionism, including its connection to belonging, self-worth, and identity. Katherine shares her personal journey, including how a cancer diagnosis forced her to confront her own need for control, ultimately shaping her understanding of resilience and self-compassion.

This episode offers practical strategies for shifting from self-punishment to self-compassion and provides actionable insights for transforming perfectionism into a tool for living a more empowered and fulfilling life. Whether you identify as a perfectionist or know someone who does, this conversation will leave you with a new perspective on what it truly means to strive for excellence while maintaining balance, authenticity, and joy.

Key Takeaways from the episode with Katherine Morgan Schafler

• Perfectionism is not a weakness but a power. It can be either constructive or destructive, depending on how we manage it.
• The five types of perfectionists:
  • Classic Perfectionists: Value structure and discipline but may struggle with rigidity.
  • Intense Perfectionists: Are highly driven but can become frustrated when things do not go as planned.
  • Parisian Perfectionists: Strive for perfect relationships and often prioritize connection.
  • Messy Perfectionists: Love starting new projects but struggle with follow-through.
  • Procrastinator Perfectionists: Fear failure and often delay action in pursuit of ideal conditions.
• Self-punishment does not create change. True personal growth comes from self-compassion, not from being overly self-critical.
• Belonging and perfectionism are deeply linked. Many perfectionists struggle with feeling “enough,” and understanding your perfectionist tendencies can help foster stronger, more authentic connections.
• Understanding your perfectionist type helps you ask for and receive support. Instead of trying to change who you are, lean into your strengths and surround yourself with people who complement them.
• Success is about wholeness, not flawlessness. Striving for external perfection often leads to burnout, whereas embracing imperfection allows for deeper fulfillment.

Why This Episode with Katherine Morgan Schafler is a Must-Listen 

This conversation challenges everything we thought we knew about perfectionism. Instead of treating it as a burden, Katherine Morgan Schafler helps us see perfectionism as a tool that, when harnessed properly, can lead to deeper self-awareness, stronger relationships, and a greater sense of belonging. Whether you are a high achiever, struggle with self-criticism, or want to improve your mindset around success, this episode offers the guidance and perspective you need.

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Katherine Morgan Schafler Dives Deep into the Five Types of Perfectionists

In The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control, Katherine Morgan Schafler redefines perfectionism—not as a flaw, but as a power that can either uplift or hinder us, depending on how we manage it. She identifies five distinct types of perfectionists, each with its own strengths, challenges, and tendencies. Understanding these types allows us to harness our perfectionism rather than letting it control us.

For many, perfectionism has long been viewed as a burden—something that leads to stress, burnout, and dissatisfaction. But Schafler argues that perfectionism when understood and directed appropriately, can be a source of strength, creativity, and deep fulfillment. Rather than trying to eradicate perfectionist tendencies, she encourages readers to embrace them, learning how to channel their perfectionism in ways that enhance their well-being rather than diminish it. This reframing is crucial because perfectionism isn’t a one-size-fits-all trait; it manifests differently in each individual, shaping how we approach work, relationships, and personal growth.

By breaking perfectionism into five distinct types, Schafler provides a roadmap for self-awareness and self-compassion. Instead of trying to fit into a rigid mold of what perfectionism “should” look like, individuals can recognize their unique patterns and make intentional adjustments to create a healthier, more balanced approach to life. Whether it’s learning to let go of control, set boundaries, or take action without fear of failure, understanding one’s perfectionist type is the first step toward using it as a tool for success rather than a roadblock to fulfillment.

1. The Classic Perfectionist – Structure, Discipline, and High Standards

“I don’t just want things done; I want them done the right way.”

Classic perfectionists are planners, the detail-oriented achievers who value discipline, consistency, and high standards. They thrive on structure and reliability, making them excellent at executing long-term projects with precision.

• Strengths: They are dependable, organized, and consistent, making them valuable leaders and team members.
• Challenges: Their rigidity can lead to burnout and frustration when things don’t go as planned. They may struggle to delegate, fearing that others won’t meet their standards.
• Solution: Learning to trust others and embrace flexibility can help classic perfectionists prevent stress and maintain stronger relationships.

2. The Intense Perfectionist – Visionary, Driven, and Hard to Please

“If you’re going to do something, do it exceptionally—or don’t do it at all.”

Intense perfectionists are relentless in their pursuit of excellence. They often have a strong, unwavering vision and expect others to meet their high expectations. Steve Jobs is a prime example—someone who valued precision and excellence above all.

• Strengths: They are bold, innovative, and capable of achieving remarkable results. Their focus and determination push boundaries.
• Challenges: They can be impatient, struggle with collaboration, and often neglect relationships in pursuit of results. Their drive can come across as intimidating or even abrasive.
• Solution: Practicing empathy and recognizing the value of teamwork can help them channel their intensity into sustainable success.

3. The Parisian Perfectionist – Connection, Harmony, and Ideal Relationships

“I want everyone to feel seen, included, and valued.”

Parisian perfectionists are people-pleasers at heart. Their version of perfection is built around relationships, ensuring that others feel valued, heard, and connected.

• Strengths: They are emotionally intelligent, empathetic, and exceptional at fostering strong personal and professional connections.
• Challenges: Their desire for harmony can lead to over-accommodation and people-pleasing, sometimes at their own expense.
• Solution: Setting boundaries and learning that conflict is sometimes necessary can help them avoid emotional exhaustion.

4. The Messy Perfectionist – Creative, Spontaneous, and Easily Distracted

“I love starting new things—but finishing them is another story.”

Messy perfectionists are bursting with ideas and enthusiasm. They thrive on innovation and exploration but struggle with follow-through.

• Strengths: They are dynamic, creative thinkers who excel in brainstorming and launching new projects.
• Challenges: They often get distracted or lose interest once the initial excitement fades.
• Solution: Pairing with structured individuals and setting micro-goals can help them complete what they start.

5. The Procrastinator Perfectionist – Overthinker, Fearful, and Stuck in Planning

“I’ll start when everything is perfect.”

Procrastinator perfectionists fear failure to such an extent that they delay starting or finishing tasks. Their pursuit of the ideal often leads to inaction.

• Strengths: They are thorough, analytical, and capable of producing high-quality work.
• Challenges: Their fear of imperfection can result in paralysis and missed opportunities.
• Solution: Reframing failure as part of the process and focusing on progress over perfection can help them take action.

Each perfectionist type has the potential for greatness—but also the risk of self-sabotage. The key, as Schafler emphasizes, is recognizing your tendencies and making intentional choices to turn perfectionism into a source of strength, rather than a barrier to fulfillment.

THANKS, KATHERINE MORGAN SCHAFLER

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RESOURCES FROM THE SHOW WITH KATHERINE MORGAN SCHAFLER

Please note that some of the links on this page (books, movies, music, etc.) lead to affiliate programs for which The Passion Struck podcast receives compensation. It’s just one of the ways we keep the lights on around here. Thank you so much for being so supportive!

1. Katherine Morgan Schafler’s Website
2. The Perfectionist Guide Website
3. Katherine’s Instagram
4. BUY Katherine’s Book
5. Passion Struck Core Value System: https://passionstruck.com/the-passion-struck-core-belief-system/
6. Listen to Passion Struck’s interviews with New York Times bestselling authors Gretchen Rubin and Seth Godin.
7. Check out Passion Struck’s Episode Starter Packs on Spotify or Passion Struck starter packs to get started with the podcast.

My solo episode on Why You Need to Stop Chasing Perfection in Your Life

My episode with Homaira Kabir on How You Overcome the Tyranny of Perfection

Can’t miss my episode with Thomas Curran on Breaking Free From the Perfection Trap

Catch my interview with Eduardo Briceño on Break Free from the Performance Paradox

Listen to my solo episode on Why Hustle Culture Is Toxic (And How to Break Free From It)

About Today’s Guest, Katherine Morgan Schafler

Katherine Morgan Schafler is a licensed psychotherapist, author, and speaker specializing in personal development, emotional growth, and mental well-being. With a focus on helping individuals break free from perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and self-doubt, Katherine’s work empowers people to embrace their authentic selves and live more intentional lives.

Her approach combines therapeutic expertise with deep empathy and a nuanced understanding of the human experience, allowing her to offer transformative insights into personal growth. Katherine is the author of The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power and regularly speaks on topics like self-compassion, identity, overcoming limiting beliefs, and how to build lasting habits. Through her work, she helps individuals shift their mindset to one of strength, self-acceptance, and resilience.

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